A former Minister of Health and founding member of the Peoples Democratic Party, Prof. Alphonsus Nwosu, tells ADELANI ADEPEGBA that the party will perform well as the main opposition party after its loss of the presidency
What is your view about the last general elections, especially the presidential?
It was fought and won and conceded, and there is no post-election violence. But in terms of mandate, I am not as euphoric as others. I am glad that somebody like Afe Babalola (SAN) pointed out the troubling part of the mandate which many people are not seeing; that the North-West and North-East denied (President Goodluck) Jonathan 25 per cent of their votes and the South-East and South-South also denied (Maj.-Gen. Muhammadu) Buhari 25 per cent. Such ethnic cleavages are new; it was not the kind of situation in the case of MKO Abiola. It was not the kind of thing that brought (ex-President Olusegun) Obasanjo into power. Therefore, we need to reflect on it.
What is the implication of the South-East and the South-South not voting for Buhari?
You can look again at the opinion of Afe Babalola in detail. The North-West and the North-East voted and gave overwhelming mandate to Buhari, and massively too. The South-East and the South-South voted and gave mandate to Jonathan, but not as massively. The difference in the numbers made it; it was only in the South-West and in the North-Central that there were appreciable percentages.
Voters are usually guided by two factors – their fears and hopes. If I fear that being in power of a particular presidential candidate would not be in my interest, I will not vote for him. If I am hoping that a presidential candidate would be better for me, I will vote for him. Now, there seems to be nobody from the South-East that is having any regrets about who and how they voted. If another voting is called now, it will be exactly the same. Now, the onus is on the person that you have fears about to reassure you that those fears are unfounded. Therefore, the onus is on the President-elect (Buhari) not to act in a manner that would exacerbate the fears of the South-East.
Based on this, would you say the governors were responsible for the failure of the party in the last elections?
I don’t know if you are referring to the fact that we were PDP Reformed Forum in 2010. And in 2010, the group that wanted us dead was the governors’ forum because we said there was no provision for such anywhere in the PDP Constitution. We should now re-examine a lot of things that had happened to the PDP. People are saying ‘re-invent yourselves.’ No. We are not re-inventing anything; we are going back to the founding principles which we violated. We will try and see how to correct the violation.
The advertisement that announced the coming of the PDP said it sought to give people freedom, development, assured democracy and provide effective leadership and good governance. It is deviating from these that created the problem. The deviation came when impurities were allowed to come in. All those seeking power rushed into the PDP once it won the first election. Those impurities are now rushing out into the All Progressives Congress. To people like me, that is good riddance. We will sit back and look at it again.
Former President Olusegun Obasanjo has been described as a nail in the coffin of President Jonathan’s political career. Do you agree?
Former President (Olusegun) Obasanjo was the President I served and I say it now for the one thousandth time that anybody who would appoint someone without having met that person for once meant well. He appointed me without knowing me, without having ever met me. I will also say that when he took me on that first day, he had two bills in his pocket. One was for Niger Delta Development and he said to me, ‘as political adviser, you have to help me push this. What has happened to the Niger Delta is wrong.’ And the second one was anti-corruption. He said ‘go and study how we can make this effective, including the Hong Kong model and all that. Nigeria cannot go on like this, it is wrong.’ For a man I had not known, I would say this for him. But he also had certain tendencies that did not augur well for both internal democracy and party supremacy. These tendencies grew and grew until the party became not the effective organ that was envisaged but an appendage of government.
With the current situation, do you think the PDP can wrest power from the APC in future?
I don’t know. Even though political parties are formed with the sole purpose of contesting for power, they should contest for power within certain boundaries. What I am interested in is that we should again reassure ourselves how we started – internal democracy, good governance, democracy dividends, welfare, well being of the people, basic freedom of the people and funding of the party.
For example, when we were founding this party, nobody envisaged that the PDP would be meeting in Governors’ Lodges. It was envisaged that the PDP would be meeting in the party secretariat and governors would attend. I believe it was only Jigawa State, where the governor (Sule Lamido) took me on one of my visits in his car, for us to go to the party secretariat to be given account of how he is using the mandate on their behalf. It was not an air-conditioned office; it had fans. And I came back and said, ‘you know, Comrade Sule Lamido, you are crazy.’ That is the kind of thing the party envisaged. It was not surprising because he was there in the G34. He was there in the founding of the party, thus he knew the purpose. What I am interested in is to let us go back to those principles and then examine the problems that are real in Nigeria.
The advertorial that announced us said, “We want to practise true federalism, among other things.” Are we practising true federalism? If we are not, then let’s get back to where we practised true federalism. Let us examine how to deliver on education because education and reduction of poverty go hand in hand. I don’t mean education for children of the rich; I mean the kind of education we all got. Among those above 70 in Nigeria, only a few can tell you that their parents could read and write. Therefore, if people above 70, who had been ministers and other things in Nigeria, were born and raised in rural communities by illiterate parents, and they were able to attend the best universities in the world, why can’t we do same for this generation? Why is it that the children of tomato sellers, carpenters and others like them are doomed to poverty? How many of them can become top surgeons and top lawyers with the kind of education they are getting? These are the things I want the PDP to look at. Therefore, when we hold a party convention, it is not to elect the party chairman, or sack the National Working Committee, it is to have people speak on how we can become a great nation.
If you are to analyse the outgoing administration, which areas do you think Jonathan could have done better?
He did his best according to his ability. Before I say where he could have done better, let me tell you where he did best. He is not an over-bearing President; many regard it as a sign of weakness. But he could have made life a little more uncomfortable, if he had been an over-bearing president. Thus, the fact that he took a lot of things he might not have taken made it look like he is weak. But having said that, where did he not do well? He did not do well by not establishing that ‘once you do not do right, you leave government.’ I will take one classic example: There was no reason why the minister (of interior) and the Comptroller (of the Nigeria Immigration Service) should have remained in office after that recruitment disaster. That is one place he should have shown decisiveness, even if he was friendly and kind. With the number of lives lost, if those people did not resign, they should be summarily dealt with. I think he was lacking in terms of dealing summarily with bad behaviour in public office.
Again, I keep saying that this is not personal but business. The business of government dictates that if you do well, you remain; if you don’t do well, you go. The second one is; I think the government was much diffused in its focus. It should have focused on about three or four things which would be so clear. He also did well in human capital development and I pray that the incoming government will sustain it.
It is widely believed that corruption and impunity thrive most under the Jonathan-led administration. Do you agree?
Corruption is a very deadly cancer and virus that must be radically removed from the Nigerian system. Having said that, the Jonathan-led administration was really able to defend itself but I don’t know how many looked at those publications (government reports). It showed the number of people that were successfully prosecuted under President Jonathan’s watch, compared to those before him. It showed what the Transparency International ratings were before and during his regime, and I think if you look at those facts, it would be a very unfair assessment to make. What he did not do was that he did not dramatise. He did not have a Chairman of the Economic and Financial Crime Commission that would parade people. But in terms of his records, he said these were the people that were prosecuted from this period to this period.
Corruption is a serious, deadly thing in Nigeria and we should not personalise it. We in the PDP wish Buhari well as he handles it. The thing about corruption and money is that they have very bad odour. And if I am being surrounded by corrupt people, even if I pretend that I don’t know, Nigerians know that they are corrupt. Nigerians know what Prof. ABC Nwosu had before he became a minister and what he has now. And it is not only ministers and governors; it is down to the civil servants. Therefore, it is a deep-seated thing. And whistle-blowers and the Code of Conduct Bureau are important. The constraint the President-elect would have is that this is a democracy, there are institutions. If he needs these institutions to further increase their effectiveness, he will have to go through the National Assembly to get the laws. But every Nigerian wishes him well in his battle against corruption. We wish him well, but we caution him to strengthen the rule of law, go through existing institutions, or set up new ones if they are inadequate.
The old PDP, which we want to get back to after the impurities have left, envisages a virile opposition. So, we are not uncomfortable being in the opposition; I am not. This opposition will not be an opposition for its sake. We would say ‘this is good, this is not good; this can be done better.’ That is the opposition and in the end, when it is time to contest power, Nigerians can judge each person and each political party according to its own.
Do you see the PDP coming back strong to gain power again?
Definitely yes, but I don’t know the time frame. It could be earlier than envisaged.
How do you intend to achieve this with the party in disarray?
As big as China is, I don’t know how many people Mao Tse-tung had in order to bring out the revolution that brought China to where it is today. I don’t how many people that (Fidel) Castro had, but he remains cast in that his Che Guevara thinking. What I am trying to say is that it doesn’t take a crowd to bring about a difference and once something has started, you can’t stop it. You need a critical mass, even if it is in disarray. I have already said that there are impurities that came in when the PDP became a winning party. We will re-invent and if Nigerians see that we are pure, they will take their decision. And if we are cooperating, we are not critical of the APC, and the APC does not deliver, it will now set agenda for its removal. It will be dependent on how the PDP rediscovers its soul and how the APC delivers.
Do you see what happened to the PDP happening to the APC in future?
I don’t know, it depends on how they handle it. The PDP might have handled it better. About a year ago, one of the APC governors-elect was a PDP minister. How come that he resigned, went to his state, he was not given a ticket (in the PDP); he moved to another party (APC), became a candidate and won the governorship when he did not win his senatorial seat under the PDP. These are things we have to look at. The soul of that governor is not in the PDP at all; he is a hunter, a market maker and we must be firm in saying so. Look at the way my former boss (Obasanjo) tore his PDP card publicly; if PDP cleanses itself, purges itself, and stands on a good path in the interest of Nigerians, can he, in good conscience, say ‘I tore my card’? Is there no limit to anger and resentment? These are the things we would worry about, and so we might be able to say it is not everybody that may be able to jump into the new PDP. We should be more careful. We were more careful about the people we admitted. People like Bola Ige were part of the formation of PDP and he looked at certain people that came and said, ‘no, we can’t be found here.’
Are you saying the new PDP will not open its doors to every interested person?
We would not allow people to jump in here; tomorrow, it is another party, and then we give them responsibility, no. Somebody cannot contest in another party, lose, and rush back here, then go to another one, contest again, lose, and again come back here. No. It is either you are part of the PDP or not.
But why did the party leadership allow such things to happen?
This is a very clear thing in the context of what is happening now. Whenever a system fails to deliver, those driving the system, out of honour, resign. There are no two ways to it. When those who drove the system failed and did not resign, they are now dishonourable and they are bringing the party into disrepute. You cannot use the same voice, with which you advocated for certain things and get rejected by the people, to now advocate for opposite things. In the country (United Kingdom), which we admire, when the Conservatives fail, the leadership goes. I don’t know how many people remember the intense struggle between Edward Heath and Margaret Thatcher. It is not personal, it is business.
When you fail, even in the corporate world, you give way to new hands. The fact that the governors are saying it to the executives of the PDP is not necessary; they should have just acted like Mr. President before the election result was announced. I expected that they would by now have resigned and say ‘we are setting a convention for this period to get temporary leaders until we can elect (new leaders), but we will honourably bow out.’ That is the proper thing that is required. To sit there until you are forced is unheard of; it is the ultimate in infamy. Not going means that they want to superintend over the liquidation of a system which failure they drove.
Does it mean you are supporting the governors’ call for the NWC to resign?
It is so necessary. I am not talking of only the NWC but the Board of Trustees too; everyone should have simply said ‘we gave our best, we did well in 1999, we did well in 2003, in 2007 and 2011, it is time for us to take a bow.’ That is the proper thing. For them to sit tight, waiting to be forced out, is a most disgraceful thing and I hope that history will record them for that.
What should Nigerians expect from President Jonathan after May 29?
He should sit back quietly and say to himself, ‘I came in, I saw, I gave it my best shot, I can now earn my retirement.’ (Gen.) Abdulsalami (Abubakar) came in (as Head of State); he could have stretched it but he didn’t stretch it at all; he went away. I am not sure when Abdulsalami gave up in 1999; he was much older than President Jonathan. He has lived a quiet life and I do not see why President Jonathan cannot live a quiet life, especially considering the way he honourably exited.
Do you believe that Buhari and the APC have what it takes to change the country in the next four years?
If I believed, I would have voted for them. Since I did not vote for them, it means I did not. That is logic. I voted based on my fears and my hopes, and where I am now is that I was afraid. I am still afraid of the APC and the President-elect and the holders of power. I am not convinced about how they intend to solve the problems like corruption, power, economy, education, national integration. I don’t know.
Is it true that Buhari is surrounded by corrupt people and individuals with questionable character?
There are two things I don’t do: I am not judgmental, I don’t judge. The second thing is that I don’t make prescriptions. I judge people based on their competence. As for those surrounding Buhari, the only concern I found laughable was that with the exception of Bola Tinubu, who I know quite well has been steadfast in opposition, others are mostly from the PDP. Tinubu was the last man standing among the Alliance for Democracy governors. But look at everybody; look at the Director-General, (APC Presidential Campaign Organisation), Governor (Rotimi) Amaechi, who was PDP Speaker (of Rivers State House of Assembly) for eight years; and PDP ex-governor, Bukola Saraki, and PDP ex-Vice President, Abubakar Atiku. Name them to the highest level; they were all PDP members. Even in the South-East where we have (Senator) Chris Ngige, a former PDP governor.
Is the APC a River Jordan, which once you enter, you get cleansed of your PDPness? If PDP is all bad, then APC should be all bad because all the key operatives, with the exception of Tinubu, Ogbonnaya Onu and the rest. Even one of them, (former National Chairman of PDP, Abubakar) Baraje, was the one that expelled us from the PDP. How could he expel me for saying we should have internal democracy? Remember the Nigerian Governors’ Forum was made into a mammoth organ by Bukola Saraki. Then they got for us a chairman. Before then, all the party chairmen were founding members of the PDP. It was the forum that gave us a ‘joiner’ as chairman of the party. They were the ones who caused most of what they are criticising in the PDP. It was not I; it was they in the NGF. Now, they are rushing into the APC. Let’s see how the APC will deal with all these.
How well do you think the opposition will fair under the APC in the coming dispensation?
I am looking forward to being part of the PDP in the opposition. I am looking forward to the burden of explaining some government foibles. There is nothing the APC can do to the PDP opposition. Opposition is the soap that washes dirt away from governance and the ruling party. I don’t see anything bad in the opposition.
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