In this interview, a former Chairman of the Nigerian chapter of Transparency International, Major-Gen. Ishola Williams (retd), speaks on the renewed effort of the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) to prosecute some former governors for corruption. DGossip247 reports
How do you see the spate of arrests of ex-governors by the EFCC in recent times?
I think everybody should be happy about that. At least we are now having a turnaround against impunity and there are no untouchables. But it appears the EFCC is giving the impression that it could have taken action if not for political interference.
Actually, EFCC is just waking up with all these things that are happening now. It is also an interesting twist that it’s not the governors alone but their children too.
That is quite interesting to the whole issue of recklessness by various people who were elected as leaders, especially at the state level. On the other hand, one should also be happy that Chimaroke Nnamani, the former governor of Enugu State, has been told to forfeit his properties to the Federal Government. In the real sense of it, he converted the money given to the people of the state to look after them for his own personal use. I think those properties should be forfeited to the Enugu State government and not the Federal Government.
But it is very good that a judge has taken that stand. And if it continues that way, you can be rest assured that impunity is going to be reduced to the minimum. Many years ago I used to tell people that in my lifetime, this sort of thing is going to happen.
I am so happy that my dreams are coming through and that in my lifetime this sort of thing is happening. I am so happy and I want to see more of it before I die.
In the past, arrests like these have been made only for the victims to resort to plea bargain. Are we not going back to that era?
It is difficult for people like us to do something about it, but having listened to the Chief Justice of the Federation, he has said that the judges can continue to do what they do but if they are caught, they are going to be punished.
Therefore, we require the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA) to play their own part; we also require the prosecutors from the Ministry of Justice and EFCC to play their own parts too, that is, don’t tempt the judges with bribe.
And also, on the part of all these anti-corruption bodies and Ministry of Justice, don’t go there like the case of Femi Fani-Kayode with untidy books; they must do their homework properly. Both the prosecution and defence counsel must help the judges to do their jobs properly and not to be giving them money to be able to get people off hook.
Do you believe that the political leadership of the last administration impeded the performance of the anti-corruption agency?
Very much so! After all, the anti- corruption agency is a political institution. Who set it up? Former President Olusegun Obasanjo set it up and he is a politician. And it has also shown that when Nuhu Ribadu was there, in spite of what journalists said in the newspapers, he too was politically influenced. And then when he left EFCC and wanted to become president of Nigeria, the people who were supporting him, he said they have no case and gave them a clean bill of health.
He spared Bola Tinubu, Patience Jonathan and Michael Aaondoaka. What sort of person is that? So, regardless of all the praise, that guy was a fake with respect to anti-corruption.
What also happened again was that Ibrahim Lamorde was working with him and remember that he said that former Governor James Ibori bribed him with $15 million and it was not him that carried it to Central Bank, it was Lamorde. Where is the $15 million that they took from Ibori? Where is the receipt?
Where is the paper that Central Bank gave to them that they deposited $15 million in Ibori’s account? Delta State government woke up one morning and said if that money is from Ibori, then it came from us, please return it. So, where is the $15 million? So, we should learn. Journalists too also have a fault in this thing. You cover up too many things. So, with the new regime now, with what is happening now, you have to step up.
What do you think should be done to the oil sector, do you think the NNPC should be investigated?
Already, President Buhari has done a very smart thing because it doesn’t cost the government anything to probe NNPC. He left it to the National Economic Council (NEC) to set up a committee of governors to probe NNPC itself. I believe this is very smart. Let the governors do it themselves and come up with a report.
The other challenge is the issue of subsidy but I don’t think it’s a challenge anymore because in many places we are already buying fuel more than N87 and in some parts of this country, they have never bought fuel for N87.
So, what is the whole hypocrisy all about? And like many people have written, they are just making some people rich doing nothing through subsidy.
In the case of NNPC, I think the transition committee made some recommendations and when the governors finish their investigation they should be able to make some recommendations and that will provide the president the opportunity to reorganise the whole place.
Are you supporting the view that the stewardship of some of these former governors in their respective states should be probed?
What has been happening before is this; they come to Abuja every month to collect money and nobody has asked them how they are spending the monthly disbursement.
Nobody. In fact, our newspapers concentrate on the Federal Government. They don’t bother to ask. Therefore, we must start asking questions as ‘what do these governors do with these money that makes them not pay workers?’ Now they have been given what they call bailout, what is happening now is that there are some governors who are very prudent, who are paying their salaries regularly.
Some incompetent ones have been unable to pay, at the same time some are putting hundreds of millions of naira in their security votes that they are unable to account for. So, which one is the priority now: Payment of salaries and the issue of security votes and contracts that they give to people that you cannot even pay? So, it is not only the workers that are suffering, contractors too are suffering. And these contractors too employ people. That is how the whole thing goes round.
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